WarRoom With Steve Bannon - Boris Epshteyn - On His First Memories Coming To America & How Much These Holidays Mean

about a year ago

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Steve Bannon: Want to go now to Boris Epstein. Boris, you know, we've heard the story from you a few times about how you came to the United States as a young boy leaving Russia. Talk to us. What are your first memories of Passover? And for a young Jewish, particularly someone coming from a foreign country coming to America, how important are the holidays and particularly Passover, to a young Jewish boy?

Boris Epshteyn: Steve, an honor to be here with you on this wonderful day and an honor to follow, Rabbi Spiro. In my family, we left the former in the rubble of the Soviet Union in the early nineties when it was a complete disaster, a complete free for all. And we came to America seeking the beauty of America, the promise of America, the opportunity of America, and very much the freedom of America. And, you know, one of my first experiences in America was discovering my and my family's Judaism. So I was very close with my grandfather. And he has been a guiding light in my life. He was a history professor, a World War Two hero, and a wonderful human being who never lost the love of life and excitement about life and lived a wonderful, full life. He was born in 1915, before the Soviet Union and before the Communists took over. And he was born in Rostov-on-Don in Southern Russia. And so he had had experiences as a young boy of Judaism that my father didn't have and I didn't have because religion was outlawed in the Soviet Union. So we got to America in early September of 1993, and Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur were early that year. And my grandpa said to me, just out of the blue, you know, I think with four or five, maybe six days of us being there, he said, let's go to synagogue.

Boris Epshteyn: And I had never been before, and my grandfather hadn't been in, you know, 60 years, 70 years. And we went together, and that experience of America giving us the opportunity and the safety of being able to practice Judaism and listen to the cantor and experience that together is something that I've treasured every day since. And I think a lot about during both the holidays in the fall, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and of course, of course, Passover. So that's what it means to me. You know, these holidays, the high holidays of Judaism, to me, represent this chance that I have with so many Jews who I grew up with in Russia, in the former Soviet Union, and Jews who live there. You know, and it's not just during the Soviet Union, let's be honest. Even though my grandpa may have been exposed to a little bit of Judaism, you know, in the late 19 teens, the antisemitism in that area was so rampant that it wasn't like you could practice freely. And it's only true now that America has led the way along, of course, with the key state of Israel and the blessed state of Israel to allow people like myself to practice. And then, in terms of Passover specifically and the path of the Jewish people of escaping persecution and prosecution for thousands and thousands of years, I'm very proud of that.

Boris Epshteyn: I'm proud that we as a people, from the Pharaoh to the Romans to the Ottomans, to the Tsars, to Hitler, to the persecution we faced all across the world, we have persevered. We have walked on our feet, and we have fought with our hands and fought with our weapons. And we have stood tall. And I'm very proud to call myself a Jew, very proud that my little boy is a Jew, very proud of our family. And I'm very proud of the Jewish community that does not give up, that does not lie down. That takes the fight head-on. That doesn't say, you know, let's hide, let's take our yarmulkes off for those who choose to wear, and let's maybe change our names. We don't do that. We're done with that. Jewish people are here to stay. The Jewish people will not be bullied. They will not be bullied by B.D.S., not be bullied by woke leftists. They won't be bullied by the Palestinians. We're not going to be bullied by Iran or any other source of hate. We're going to continue to fight, and we're going to continue to stand strong. And to those who are hating on us., the Mehdi Hasan and all those other losers, yes. To you. If you're watching MSNBC, keep doing it because you're only making us stronger, and Passover is a celebration of that.

Steve Bannon: You know, I want to address this concept that we talk about a lot here in the War Room because we get down, and we're going to get into a few minutes into the kind of nitty-gritty of politics and calendars and critical paths and things that are happening. But we do talk at the railhead of this. It's a spiritual war. I was fortunate enough to make a film about President Reagan from Peter Schwartz's book, Reagan's War. And I named the film in the Face of Evil. But it went through basically from 1914 all the way to the fall of the Berlin Wall. But it was really to make the point about our fight against radical Islam at the time. I made this film right after 911, in the early 2000s. And in researching that film and making it, it surprised me that so many Americans, even living at that time, did not realize that the Soviet Union was a purely atheistic state. In other words, it did have a kind of the Orthodox Church as a puppet, but it really suppressed all Christianity and Catholicism. And it was particularly brutal in suppressing Judaism and obviously even aspects of Islam in certain other situations.

Boris Epshteyn: Judaism, Soviet, and Jews. There was a maximum of the amount of Jews that could be accepted to higher education institutions. So it was the suppression of the religion, and it was also the suppression of Jews, which is shocking in a lot of ways because then when the brain drain happened, and my father was a part of that brain drain, he applied for a math P.H.D. and we left in '93. That brain drain hurt Russia so much and hurt the former Soviet Union. But the operation of the government had entrenched in itself antisemitism that was beyond religion. It was deeply ethnic in nature. And people were denied promotions, denied admission to higher education, just blatantly based on being Jewish. And that is a disgusting, oppressive, and deeply unacceptable way to operate. However, unfortunately, it reflects this ingrained antisemitism that we see all the way into today across the world.

Steve Bannon: Also, I want to make sure people understand that the pogroms and this antisemitism were even before the Soviets. There was a deep issue with this for many, many centuries. You know, I want to come up to the current times to get your thoughts on that. I think you're the only person that not just MAGA, but I think even on the right that said on our show at the very beginning of this Ukraine situation, he said, look, you know, it looks like the Russian military is ten times at that time, 20 times what the Ukrainian military is. You said I think this is a mistake. Now, I realize some of your relatives actually, you've got ancestors that live in Ukraine.

Steve Bannon: And there's this whole concept of is eastern Ukraine really traditionally part of Russia? Has it been southwest Russia and western Ukraine? Poland or part of the Austria-Hungary empire? But you said at the beginning you've had family there, you know, Ukraine, but you said, you know, I think Putin's making a big mistake here. And now we've played out, and over this weekend, you've got Finland and Sweden and others I think are coming into NATO that may be fast-tracked. And we're going to have this huge controversy about NATO and the whole Russian psyche about being contained or surrounded. Why at the time did you actually say at the very beginning, I think this is a mistake? I think Putin, even geopolitically and militarily, from his own national security perspective, is making a mistake. Why? Why did you say that?

Boris Epshteyn: Steve, I said it because it seemed to me from the very beginning like an overextension that Putin and the government and the military in Russia were not prepared for it. And also, you've got to remember that Ukraine is a lot smaller than Russia, but it's still a significant country with a significant population and significant resources. Also, you've got to look at history. And there are two things in history that jumped out at me at that time. One is that when both Napoleon and Hitler attacked, and specifically Hitler when he attacked on June 22nd, 1941, he attacked in three zones. And it was north-central and south-central and went straight through Ukraine. And that was supposed to get right to Moscow. Central got slowed down, and south which also touched Ukraine, got slowed down. So the history there suggests that the Ukrainian people were not just willing to give up, and that's ethnic Ukrainians, ethnic Russians, whatever it may be. But that is not an area where you just walk through that or waltz through. That slowed down the beginning of the eastern front of World War Two is what caused then for a total bogged down in Moscow or outside of Moscow in November and December. And really what allowed them for Stalingrad to happen in late '42, '43. Because if Hitler had gotten straight to Moscow in September and taken Moscow, I'm not sure that that war would have been able to be extended and then able to be gotten to Stalingrad and turned around. So that's history, number one. History number two is Russia historically has not succeeded in offensive maneuvers.

Boris Epshteyn: If you go counting back, you've got to look at Afghanistan in the late seventies and early eighties, complete and utter disaster. You've got to look at Finland in the late thirties, complete and utter disaster. Japan in 1904 and 1806 was a complete and utter disaster that resulted in the first revolution of 1905 that ended up starting the chain that toppled the Tsar in 1917, in 1914, and then in the '17, finally bringing the communists to power. And then you go back even further, go to the Ottoman wars. The wars that Russia and the Soviet Union are lumped together have succeeded in wars where they've been attacked, the Napoleonic Wars and World War Two. World War One is another example. Russia got involved outside of its borders, overextended itself, and got absolutely destroyed, trounced, and annihilated, which again resulted in the revolutions of February in October 1917. So if you pull all that together, the analysis is you've got a country in Russia, and people want stability. The people want some comfort. They want security, and they want stability. You've got a military that really hasn't been tested outside of the war in Chechnya and the nineties and early 2000s. That was, again, a complete quagmire. And then you've got the Ukrainians who weren't just going to give upso combining all that resulted in my assessment that it was a mistake. And then, on a broader geopolitical level, I think Putin completely underestimated how much the world was just not going to accept something like that. And I think maybe his perception was, well, they're not going to care.

Boris Epshteyn: It's a regional conflict, something like Georgia in 2008. We're at a different time. Social media, the proliferation of media overall, and frankly, Zelensky, there's no way to discount this. And I don't think you can just write it off. Zelensky has been better at the P.R. game than the Russians. And yes, a lot of the things the Ukrainians have put out, you know, the island, and then I think the ghost of Kyiv and other things that have turned out just simply not to be true. But once they're out there and the P.R. game is won, Steve, you, and I know how that works. So combining all those things, I think at the time, that was my assessment. And I think right now there's no way to say that. Otherwise, you've got the press secretary of Russia saying there have been heavy losses. From those reports, I think now at least seven more Russian generals have been killed. Now, the question is, what happened with this carrier that they had a major fire on?

Boris Epshteyn: So I don't think you can say that this operation is war. This intrusion by Russia has been anything but a disaster for him militarily, politically, and economically. There seems to be some sort of rebound by Russia. And I think, in the end, they've got the gas and the oil, and Hungary, France, and Germany are willing to turn it off. But overall, I think it has been a complete and total mess. And I challenge anybody to tell me that that's not the case who's not just repeating the talking points of Russia.

Steve Bannon: When you look at MSNBC and CNN. Right. I mean, we've been very critical of the E.U. in NATO and misleading the Ukrainian people just on a level of sophistication of understanding the Russian mindset, of the understanding Russian military, of understanding really this border dispute on the eastern border of Ukraine. Maybe it's metastasized into other things. What's your assessment of how supposedly the smartest guys in the room are MSNBC, The New York Times, Washington Post, and CNN. How do you think they've covered in their coverage of this war?

Boris Epshteyn: War porn. That's how they've covered it. The complete, disgusting, war-mongering war porn. It's not that, oh well, you know, they're standing up for the Ukrainians and all that. That's not what it is at all. MSNBC, CNN, and other liberal outlets are trying to use Ukraine and use the Ukrainian people in order to somehow give some back up to feckless, pathetic Joe Biden and his terrible team and say, oh, well, they've called this, and they've stood with Ukraine. Obviously, that's nonsense. Biden has provided no leadership whatsoever. And also you're seeing what's happening in Europe.

Boris Epshteyn: You know, both the French and the Germans are sort of saying, yeah, you know, you guys are on your own. And in these tariffs, you're on your own in embargoes, and you're on your own in the sanctions. So and then the same thing, of course, is happening in terms of China and India. So I think what the media was over overwhelming mainstream media in the U.S. is trying to do is to wag the dog Ukraine and wag the markets. But it's not working because you see the polls that Biden only continues to plummet more and more and more. So this attempt to use the Ukraine war somehow to make a jujitsu move and turn it into a positive for Biden has failed. And then there's this attempt to sort of say, oh well, Russia and the 2016 elections, and you still see these stories pop up, and American people have turned that off. They know that's nonsense. They want nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Steve Bannon: You know, you're correct. You know, all day long on MSNBC, it's how Biden's in such an amazing job of uniting native, uniting the west, and you see the Germans are still refusing. They're even having a preliminary discussion about how they would think in ten years of getting off the Russian gas because, quite frankly, the economic structure of Germany is totally tied. That the French he's in a dogfight now a macron and he's trying to separate himself from an aggressive anti-Russian pro-NATO policy as he fights with domestic issues to take on Le Pen challenge. Also, I think when we start talking about the C.C.P. underwriting Russia, buying their gas, etc., and say, hey, look, they may be underwriting gas, buying that today, but there's no love lost. There's ancient history here between Russia and the Chinese. And they're not going to be in a warm, brotherly embrace. We got a couple of minutes before we go to break. What do you mean by that?

Boris Epshteyn: There was a war fought between the Soviet Union and China in the late sixties, only in 1969, a hot border war that people don't talk about. But that happened. And it wasn't until Brezhnev and Mao in the seventies was there a rekindling of a relationship truly between the C.C.P. and the Soviet Union. So there's never been love lost going back to the times of Czarist Russia and the empire in China. Those are just not two societies that get along. They've had a border dispute after border dispute. They still have ongoing border disputes now. So they'll do business together. And they do seem to be coming together in working to oppose America. And because of our lack of leadership right now, we're allowing them to do that. However, that is a strained relationship and a relationship that if we had anybody with half a brain in the administration and this illegitimate regime, they could exploit it. But they're not able to because they do not understand, nor can they deal in real big boy diplomacy.

Steve Bannon: Okay. Look, we've got a lot to go through. We're going to go through a calendar. I do want to talk about Elon Musk saying he's saving civilization by going after Twitter. We've got a calendar to go through. A lot is going on this weekend. Passover, it's Good Friday. Starting on Monday, we call it the 60 days of pain in this primary season. We're going to take a short commercial break when we return with Boris Epshteyn in War and Battleground in just a moment.

Steve Bannon: Okay. Welcome back. It's Passover. It's Good Friday. You're in Battleground. This is the holiest week in the Judeo-Christian calendar, both Passover and Holy Week. Good Friday, Holy Saturday. We've got a big special tomorrow. Descent into Hell, Jack Posobiec, Joe Allen, and I will be going through all of it for 2 hours. And you will not want to miss that. It's going to be quite explosive. We'll go back to Boris Epshteyn. Boris, before we go into the calendar and talk about some of the wins we've had and things that are going on in this epic battle over Twitter. And I don't want to get into the nuts and bolts of this because I used to do hostile takeovers or hostile raid defenses at Goldman when I was there in the M&A department for many, many years. And I know you're a Wall Street guy, so we could talk forever about all the tactics and the pricing and the fairness opinions and all that reporting. This is going to be an epic battle, the poison pill.

Steve Bannon: I want to pull the camera back, though, of what Elon Musk said on Thursday, that he's trying to save civilization by going after this platform. And Darren Beattie has been very adamant over revolver that this is the public square, no matter how great the ghettos of the world are, rumbles of some of these other, you know, the FrankSpeeches which we're upon, no matter how great some of these alternatives are. And these alternatives are going to continue to spring up because Twitter had lost half of its equity capital value, a $30 billion equity valuation, since the time that it launched over the July 4th weekend of last year.

Steve Bannon: Do you believe his position, that in order to say that he is trying to save civilization by saving this social media platform called Twitter?

Boris Epshteyn: I think civilization is a little bit of a hyperbole. But what I do believe, Steve, is that Elon Musk is somebody who sees, and you know, you and I dealt with him a little bit, right, in the early days of the White House when we had those boards, where folks came in, and Elon came in, and he was great to great to interact with. I was head of surrogates. You were, of course, a chief strategist. And  Elon was somebody who really thought about how he could work with the Trump administration to make things better. He wasn't woke about it. He wasn't triggered about it. This is the team. And what can we do together? What can we do together to help? So. You know, my perspective here is this. Twitter is a deeply corrupt is a, deeply rotten company. All right.

Boris Epshteyn: It is not a company that is dedicated in any way to free speech, that's dedicated in any way to strengthening America, that's dedicated in any way to pushing forward our political society or cultural society. Twitter is obviously a tool of the left, and it's a tool of the legitimate, feckless Biden regime and other feckless regimes from the Democrats in the House, the Senate, and across America and across the world. Again, just the fact that Iran, Russia, and others, C.C.P. have their accounts up.

Boris Epshteyn: But Twitter took down the commander in chief of the United States while he was still commander in chief. And President Trump tells you all you need to know. So am I rooting for this? Absolutely. What's interesting, on Twitter today, you had Mark Cuban, who's no centrist or conservative, tweeting out. It'll be interesting to see Elon Musk team up with Peter Thiel to take on Twitter and see what can be done with it. So you're seeing now this the blood's in the water, right? The term the blood in the water and the enemies are at the gates. So the barbarians are at the gates. I think that was the famous R.J.R. Nabisco story. Right. And Twitter now is besieged across all platforms, all outlets, and almost all parts of the political spectrum. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. You know, it's also interesting that the first other major Twitter shareholder come out was Prince Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia, who said that Musk's bid was too low. It's interesting that they had him be the first voice in defense of the current holders of Twitter. It wouldn't necessarily be who I would choose to go out there and try to fend off Elon Musk.

Steve Bannon: You notice he didn't defend management. He was just saying the price is too low. Look, being an old M&A hand, I'm going to tell you that there's not an investment bank or a law firm that is going to give you a fair opinion that anything less than, I think, 30% premium to what the top price was last year in March of 2021 was the top price. I just think by the time they roll out all the internal documents and the cash flows... Okay, we've got to pivot. You've been talking about it, and we've got to pivot.

Boris Epshteyn: Let's not forget, though, that Twitter was a dying company until Donald J. Trump saved it. And that's got to be remembered. And then Twitter had no revenues. Twitter had no business. And Twitter was completely imploding into a black hole of itself until Donald Trump not only got on it but got on and ran for president and made that be his one of his main vehicles. So that's what needs to be said, and without Donald Trump on there. Is it really the same as the value there? The President said the last few days publicly that he's not sure he'd go back on it, even if he were allowed back on it or invited back on it. So that's an interesting consideration if you're valuing Twitter right now.

Steve Bannon: We're going to do this a lot more starting on Easter Monday and early next week. But we've referred to this as the 60 days of pain that's starting basically after Easter Monday until what is it, mid-June. There's going to be a bunch of primaries that are really going to determine the direction of the Republican Party in the fall campaign. And we're already seeing where President Trump is starting to raise his head and start to talk about some of these things. We can talk about endorsements, all that. We'll talk about that on Monday. But I just want to go through if Memphis has it and have you walk through the basic outline of what's in front of us? Because it's, it's a real gauntlet. And where the big primaries are and particularly where some of the early votings start and as you've been able to ascertain since these primaries draw really the hardest core of the followers of people, you know, involved in politics, there may not be a lot of early voting. So let's just go through the calendar. Walk us through what the 60 days of pain are.

Boris Epshteyn: Absolutely. If we can have the calendar on screen, I think that'd be great. And I can walk the audience through that. (Shows Picture of Primary Elections by State and Territory) If you look here, this is in alphabetical order, but I'll go through which ones are the earliest and where they go from there. The first thing that we're looking at here that is upon us like nothing else is actually, if you scroll down is, Ohio.

Boris Epshteyn: Ohio is coming at us fast and furious. Ohio is going to be right around the corner on May 3rd. And Ohio is a state that, especially in the Senate election, is completely and totally and utterly up for grabs. It's right there at the bottom of May 3rd. And Ohio is a vital primary. It's a primary where we could go through the endorsements again on Monday. Things are moving around very rapidly there. But it's a Senate race where you've got Mandel, Gibbons, Timken, J.D. Vance, Dolan. The first four have come in strong on being MAGA, have stayed MAGA, have stayed fighting, and have not taken an inch back.

Steve Bannon: It's already started now, but also, unlike any other race, this is where you're going to face somebody in Tim Ryan who's a Sherrod Brown mini-me. I mean, Sherrod Brown is by far the most populist, true populist, not a Bernie Sanders socialist. Sherrod Brown's an old-school Democratic populist. And Tim Ryan is going to be his mini-me, correct? When President Trump first one, Tim Ryan was making all types of outreach. Tulsi Gabbard and Tim Ryan were drawn to some of the trump policies, particularly American manufacturing policies. They will square off against a populist in the fall, will they not, Boris?

Boris Epshteyn: Absolutely. And it's going to be a difficult election. Tim Ryan's going to have a lot of money. The Democrats are going to pour all they can because Ohio is, as we've talked about. Right, Steve, Ohio is a deep red state now. And imagine them being able to have two blue senators in a deep red state, a state that in '16 we viewed as a toss-up. And then, in '20, that was safely for President Trump. So there's no doubt that Ohio is absolutely the first vital salvo. It's one that is going to be not determinative in terms of what happens in November of this year and then in November of 2024. But it is one that's going to tell you just how energized the base is, just how strong it is. But also, it's one where four of the leading candidates are all MAGA. All the top four are all MAGA. And what that tells you is how deep and strong our bench is. And compare that to the Democrats in Ohio and their toss-up election. They've got one guy. It's Tim Ryan. Yeah. And he's okay. He's a populist and all that good stuff. But nevertheless, they couldn't muster anybody to challenge them. Where on our side, we've got four people who are all strong MAGA, and that tells you a lot you need to know about the state of MAGA versus the state of woke liberals.

Steve Bannon: But hang on, I also want to make a distinction here and have you comment on it is that this is also a state that had a self-funder, big-name, and never-Trumper that tried to galvanize not just the establishment vote, but the kind of the anti-Trump vote in Dolan. And that's really that has got no traction whatsoever. How big a deal is that in that you've got the top four people, the people most competitive, all are going after the MAGA vote. Right. And here you have a guy who's a self-funder. He didn't have to really worry about raising money. And you could tell I heard early on there was so much hope of the never-Trump crowd that this would become an item. How did that fall flat?

Boris Epshteyn: The fact is the never-Trumpers barely exist anymore. Never-Trumpers are a tiny fraction, a true non-entity. They're a non-significant fraction of the Republican spectrum. The Republican Party is MAGA. MAGA is in control. So a guy in Ohio is thinking, oh, you know, I could run as a Bushie or whatever else. No, it isn't 2008. It isn't 2010, and it isn't 2012. That's just not going to work. So Dolan thought that he'd have an opportunity, but instead, he's been completely blown out, and he has no shot whatsoever. MAGA is going to win in Ohio.

Steve Bannon: I want to make sure people understand this. You're saying not only is it given energy on MSNBC and CNN, but we also have these never-Trump Republicans all the time, and it's just relentless. But even on Fox and a lot of conservative news outlets think, even on Newsmax, you think that the never-Trump elements of these that are up there are just trash-talking Trump all the time or even saying nice things but not supporting him. They just want his voters out of the way. Do you believe that? That is all hat, no cattle. At the end of the day, when you start looking at these primaries in the 60 days of pain, there won't really be an area where you see a never-Trump candidate really making a significant run for a Senate seat.

Boris Epshteyn: On a Senate seat, no. The only place where a never-Trumper is competitive in any of these upcoming primaries is the incumbent, Brian Kemp. And now President Trump's coming in with a large amount of support for David Perdue in terms of the Senate. If you look at Ohio, North Carolina, Alabama, and others, it's either a MAGA or it's people who are never-Trumpers, in my understanding, like Mike Doran in Alabama who are trying to talk MAGA. There's nobody out there who is tearing their shirt off saying, you know, I am for Mitch McConnell, and I'm for Bush, and I'm against Donald J. Trump. There's nobody who has any shot at winning in any of these races who's doing that. And if you look at North Carolina, Ted Buddhas now come from being either down a bit or tied to blowing that race out now. And that's another one that's coming to North Carolina in May. So these races on May 17th have all come down. Now to those who are either true MAGA or are talking MAGA, nobody is trying to run. Nobody who's competitive is trying to run as an outsider of MAGA or as a never-Trumper or a critic of Donald J. Trump.

Steve Bannon: Well, got five or six minutes. You got three may, which we get back on Easter Monday, and that's almost upon you. It's a couple of weeks. You got three may. Then you skip to about 17 May with Pennsylvania, and I think North Carolina. Then you got 24 May with Alabama and Georgia. And those are really all upon you.

Boris Epshteyn: Just potential runoffs if they don't get Alabama if you're not at 50%. And you don't get an Alabama if you're not at 50%.

Steve Bannon: Have you been impressed as you looked around? Is this going to get down to being an air game and cash money on negative ads? Or has anybody out there you've seen galvanize or actually put together what I would call a traditional ground game? That's both activists. I know everybody's been going after the activist vote. We've been covering this and having people on and talking to activists and particularly talking to people about three November. But have you seen whether it's the three May primaries, the 17 May primaries, or the 24 May those nodes? Have you seen anybody that's really galvanized and built up a network of grassroots, whom you think will be determinative on Election Day as it looks like early voting may not play that big in these Republican primaries?

Boris Epshteyn: I think each of the Ohio candidates has some amount of grassroots support. But again. That's largely fractured because you've got four MAGA candidates in Timken, Mendel Gibbons, and J.D. Dance. So that's in Ohio. North Carolina is interesting. You have seen Ted Budd run a little bit more of a traditional campaign spread out across the state, barnstorm the state as much as he can, and position himself in a good place to win. In Alabama, Katie Britt is doing that, but Mike Durant, against somebody who has not been with presidential, has said really, really awful things about President Trump and now is trying to position himself as MAGA. He's, I think, poised to be more of the new age, using as much money as possible in hopes some outside groups come and drop a lot of dough and help be more negative on Katie Brett than positive on Mike Durant. I think Katie Britt, who I'm supporting, is somebody who's more traditional and actually trying to connect and gain a relationship with the electorate with her audience vs. what Durant's doing. And we all know what's happened with Mo Brooks out there in Alabama. I think now it's a race between Britt and Durant. So, you know, that's the debate. And in Pennsylvania, you know, it's Oz versus McCormick. President Trump has come in for Dr. Oz. We all know about that. We all know there's a set of folks who are upset about that. The president made his choice. And I think with that i's going to be very difficult for McCormick. And David McCormick is also not somebody who has got a big grassroots history in Pennsylvania. Right.

Steve Bannon: But there's one different type of grassroots following. And there's another thing to have a grassroots that actually is organized into an ability to get out the vote. Getting out the vote is a very difficult thing. You remember we had a great system in '16 and '20. Also, it's been one of the bedrock of the Trump victories, and the Trump movement has these grassroots entities that are also very organized. Very dedicated, because this is not people coming to rallies or coming to your town halls or coming to see you on these debates in these states. It's actually people going around, knocking on doors, ringing doorbells, putting hangers, and then on the run-up to Election Day, getting the early vote out, and particularly on Election Day, turning out all your voters. I see that's missing, and it will make a big difference if it appears, is whether it's in Pennsylvania, whether it's in Alabama, whether it's in Georgia, whether it's in Ohio. Those candidates are not just tapping into the enthusiasm of the grassroots but also tap into its organizational ability and its ability to actually get people out pulling the trigger on Election Day, Boris Epshteyn.

Boris Epshteyn: Jane Timken has an advantage in that because she was a G.O.P. chair, she was G.O.P. chair of Ohio. So she's got the background, experience, and knowledge in being able to go ahead and do that and not have to depend on just the enthusiasm she's been able to build out that network. And I think that's going to be important to see as we get towards the voting day on May 3rd in the great state of Ohio. I think a lot of the other candidates, I mean, Ted Budd, again, have some GOTV effort. A lot of the other candidates, I think, are really depending on enthusiasm. You're going to see a lot of money spent in the next 60 days of pain. You're going to see a lot of money spent on these primary races and not just on the Senate. You know, you've got the gubernatorial, of course, but also some of the down-ticket races. This is going to be a heavy-duty 60 days. And I would strap up, follow along. And, you know, even among the policy, folks are going to have candidates who they prefer, and they like less. But here's what you got to remember.

Boris Epshteyn: You have to differentiate between true MAGA, trying to talk MAGA, and being anti-MAGA. The only acceptable choices are true MAGA. Everything else is not for us. So that's how I'm looking at these races coming up. And then you've got to start thinking about August with Arizona, Missouri, and others. A lot of important states are coming up there as well. And New Hampshire's all the way in September. So we have a long runway here, and we've got to be prepared for it. We've got to step up for it, and we've got to be ready to elect MAGA.

Steve Bannon: Okay. Passover starts. I want to make sure everybody gets your social media. They can get to you over the weekend. I know you're going to be active on Easter Monday. We'll be back to go through in detail the 60 days of pain. Really, the gunfire is on Monday, and it's a mad rush to the finish. Boris, how do people follow you on social media?

Boris Epshteyn: Steve, the website is www.borisep.com, @borisep on Gettr, @borisep on Twitter, @boris on Truth Social, and @boris_epshteyn on Instagram. Steve, I want to wish you, your family, and this whole audience, the whole posse, a happy Easter, a happy Passover. God bless all of you. Stay strong, and I'll see you on Monday.

Steve Bannon: Boris. Thank you very much, everybody. Tomorrow morning at 10 A.M., we're going to have a special descent into hell. We've got Jack Posobiec will be in the studio with me. And, of course, Joe Allen, our head of transhumanism, will be with us. You're not going to want to miss this. This will be a free fall. This will be a real open conversation where we talk about a lot of things, particularly. And Catherine Emmerich, the visionary that the movie The Passion of the Christ is based on her visions. And also talk about Mel Gibson's upcoming movie, and it's supposed to release on Easter a couple of years from now. So all tomorrow morning, 10 A.M., come back to the War, and we'll see you then.